"Free Range" ????

[Tresa (MEAT: No Rx Needed)]

I'm Vegan but what are your thoughts about eating eggs that are from a local, cruelty-free, free range farm?

[Hunger Artist]

That is a really great bit of information, Hilary! One of the most constructive and informative replies to this discussion. Thank you very much! :)

[pradtf]

this is an excellent and informative thread you started tresa! there are many good posts.

i think there are 2 issues here.

the first is an ethical one. admittedly, there is nothing unethical about taking eggs that are going to be laid anyway and just left around. however, the free range egg business is not about that. it is about keeping hens for the purpose of laying eggs which are then going to be sold in order to make a profit (or a loss). the fact that you 'take good care' of your hens doesn't change the fact that these hens are in reality being made to work for you - they are not 'animal companions'. people in the egg laying business don't keep hens because they are rescuing them or because they want to give them a good home. they keep hens so they can sell the eggs. therefore, they are treating these sentient beings as property and exploiting them.

as an illustrative comparison, in sanctuaries animals have been rescued and sometimes visitors are allowed to pay to view them which helps to cover costs of maintaining the premises. this is not necessarily exploitation - it is working together to make ends meet (so long as the process is not abused, of course). the egg business is in sharp contrast though in that it is a business that has been formed not with the intent or practice of the welfare of the hens in mind, but because someone wanted to make a buck.

the second is nutritional. consuming eggs results in large animal proteins, cholestrol etc getting into a body that really isn't remotely avian. this is not wise despite what the egg industry will tell you. while eating a few eggs may not dramatically increase cholestrol levels, animal protein often create protein antigeneity reactions in humans simply because they wander around putting the immune system on red alert. ensuing antibody responses can result in complications such as allergies, asthma, eczema and arthritis. they say the egg is a perfect food just like milk is the perfect drink, but let's not forget who these 'perfections' were design to be perfect for.

if nutritional realities aren't sufficient, one should perhaps contemplate why any person would actually put into their mouths the menstrual excretions of poultry. doing so seems to me to be totally fowl.

in friendship,
prad

[Mark]

OH MY PEOPLE!
Full of righteous indignation & half truths.
NO chicken is raised in a natural enviroment, it doesn't matter how well they're looked after, their life expectancy or their end product (Meat / Eggs). Chickens are MAN-MADE! They do not exist in nature, they are bred BY MAN, raised BY MAN & eaten BY MAN! (And NO, I don't make any apology for shouting!)

I'm calm now, let me tell you about me. I am an omnivore. I eat fish, birds, mammals, insects, crustaceans (You get the idea) plus plants, bacteria & funghi. Basically, if it's too slow or stupid to get out of my way & has the genetic misfortune of tasting good, it goes in the big box labelled "FOOD".

You all have honest views about the rights & wrongs of vegan/vegitarian/fruitarian/carnivore lifestyles & the impact on other (than human) lifeforms, but you won't convince anyone until you start to think about the full impact of what you say.
1) "It just seems wrong to eat any bodily product from any animal" (Peace Person 30/12/07)
So, if you were to have children, you wouldn't breast feed?
2) "Even the fertile egg is not technically alive, etc" (Hilary 10/01/08)
Yes it is. Development is suspended, but male & female gametes are present & fused.
3) "Actually put into their mouths the menstrual excretions of poultry" (Pradtf 29/01/08)
Try reading a dictionary & relate that to something not mammalian.

FACTS are needed, not emotions, or you'll just get written off as namby, pampy, lefty, do-goody, commy, pinky, STUUU-DENTS!

But, PLEASE, keep trying to change peoples mind about what they eat. Back-yard is better than Free-range which is better than Barn-raised which is better than Caged.

Erm.... that's about all folks.

Love & stuff

Mark
xxxxx

[pradtf]

Erm.... that's about all folks.
???
mark! i hope that doesn't mean you are going away already? you just got here - so welcome to veghaven.

now evidently you did not appreciate the bit of poetic license i took with the term menstrual, but surely you do understand that amniotic precision here does detract a bit from the imagery.

additionally, you seem to have missed peaceperson's point by applying the term 'animal' in her particular post in a way that she didn't intend to (she does seem to be using the term there as a non-human entity).

finally, before insisting that hilary's fertile egg is indeed technically alive, you might want to find out just what she means by technically alive or are you suggesting that the fusion of male and female gametes constitute living technically?

some of the advice you are giving us may be useful, but it seems to be coming out in a very emotional fashion (all the CAPS and love & stuff and all those xxxxx's). i really hope no one here will write you off as a namby, pampy, lefty, do-goody, commy, pinky, STUUU-DENT.

or were you merely trying to illustrate your point?

in friendship,
prad

[peace person]

Mark, I thought the human milk issue too obvious to need special mention. But to clarify for anyone who is uncertain: vegans can breastfeed their babies, even if they are bringing their children up as vegans.

(For those interested) Regarding bringing up children as vegans, yes, it can be very healthy for kids. The vegan kids I've met or heard of are always brimming with health and energy and happiness. Even the American Dietetic association says “Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation. Appropriately planned vegan diets satisfy nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth.”
from: American Dietetic Association (2003) "Position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada: Vegetarian diets" Journal of the American Dietetic Association, vol 103:6 (748-765)

Sorry, I'm getting very off track. Anything else you'd like clarified about what I've said, let me know. Have a good day :-)

[Hunger Artist]

Haha you must have been really bored. Anyway, in response to....erm.....everything you said....

[Karlyne Wang]

It's all killing to me...