So what's the dumbest question/comment you've gotten as a veg*n?

[Mirabilis]

Other than the ubiquitous, "Do you eat fish?" of course.

I think the one that took the cake for me was, "But if everyone stopped eating animals, we'd be overrun! What would we do with all those cows??" I'd heard about it before, but never actually encountered it. This person was dead serious. I couldn't decide whether to laugh in her face or throw something at her.

[pradtf]

yours is a perfectly good reason not to eat or harm them - because you are giving them the benefit of the doubt.

there is clear and mounting evidence that fish do feel pain:
article
and you can find more by googling.
while this evidence is unnecessary for those who 'get it', it may help sway some who still think it is ok to catch and kill fish.


if you are interested in fish, btw you can read jeffrey masson's latest book
THE FACE ON YOUR PLATE: The Truth About Food
(try not to buy from amazon though since they sell dog and cock fighting materials and are being pursued by hsus.org: link)

in fact, you can watch a rather entertaining (and mostly sensible) video of jeffrey masson right here

in friendship,
prad

[Veggie Girl]

oh. Well I guess I didn't quite understand your "thats not the point, friends" response to "fish don't feel pain."

I guess I thought you mean there was a point other than suffering... which I was very curious to hear! :-D

[Corndog]

My neighbor and I got into it. I usually manage to avoid arguments, but it had been a long day. He was talking about hunting and what a service hunters did for society. I responded that it was all about men who just had to go out and shoot something. We discussed how man is the only animal who will purposefully overbreed his environment. The deer calculated they have 200 acres and breed accordingly. Then man develops 100 acres of it, so we have manufactured the deer "overpopulation" ourselves. Researchers developed deer birth control long ago. It doesn't hurt the bucks. It's a great solution, but Fish and Wildlife put the Kibosh on it. I've been this guy's neighbor for 9 years. He asked why it was wrong to shoot them, especially since he used them for food. I told him he didn't live in a day and age that he needed to hunt for subsistence, and that deer had a right to live. He called me hypocritical and asked if I thought about that when I ate my steak for dinner at night. I told him I didn't eat meat and hadn't for more than 25 years. He said "What about your leather shoes? He looked at my man-made shoes. What about that dog leash? It's leather! Yes, it was. I've had it for more than 30 years, taken excellent care of it, and told him that I continue to use some things (not fur) that I had before I became vegetarian rather than throw them out if they weren't too ostentatious. Perhaps I shouldn't. I don't know.

Then, he launched into the stupid thing about how did I know carrots didn't feel pain. I told him I didn't eat anything that had a face. Potatoes have eyes. HAHAHA. I told him it wasn't funny the first thousand times I heard it and still wasn't. Finally, he said there was no harm, no foul. We both made some good points and gave each other something to think about. I said NO, you gave me nothing I haven't heard and rejected and wanted to vomit over for more than 20 years. He looked stricken. He said he had a vegan cousin and they all loved to give her a hard time at every gathering and she really enjoyed it. I guaranteed her that she did not enjoy it, and told him to give her my number! Finally, everything was OK again, and we are still friendly, but that conversation represented everything I hate about meateaters who refuse to respect other people's differences. I never expected to experience hate and assault over a peaceful choice.

[pradtf]

hi corndog!

good for you to stand upto your friend!
he really does know what it is all about down underneath all those ridiculous attempts at arguments - otherwise, they wouldn't be so ridiculous.

all in social justice movements experience hate and assault over their peaceful choice because those who oppress or support the oppression of others must find desperate ways to defend their actions.

in friendship,
prad

[Corndog]

Thanks, Prad. That's nice of you to point out that he does know he is wrong, or his arguments wouldn't be so ridiculous. It's always seemed like such a mystery that some people attack and seem to hate vegetarians and vegans. We aren't hurting anybody! Quite the opposite, in fact. You make a lot of sense.

This is the same guy, after all, who moved to the country, knowing that deer and armadillo live here, planted roses and lillies, which deer love, and St. Augustine grass which armadillo love to root in, then gets furious when they do so!

I gave him and other neighbors sage to plant amoung the other flowers because deer don't like sage. As a bonus, butterflies and hummingbirds LOVE sage. I also encourage "sacrifice" gardens - out-of-the-way gardens full of fast-growing plants that deer love, to keep them out of the more prominent gardens. Put birdbaths in the sacrifice gardens so the deer can drink, and they will favor those places.

The same neighbor shot some armadillos because he caught them digging for grubs in his yard. It's illegal on several counts. The armadillo is the state mammal of Texas. You can't discharge a firearm that close to another residence. I called the police and they just buddy-buddy good-old-boyed with him.

I told him that it wasn't the grass per se they liked, but grubs. Grubs love St. Augustine grass, and the grass makes it easy to get to the grubs. Get rid of the grubs and the armadillos won't poke holes in the grass. I was going to give him a big bag of diatomatious earth, which is a non-toxic treatment, but he blasted us out with poison before I had a chance. Now he uses the diatomateous earth, thank God.

I also made two sections of my property into armadillo habitats. It worked. They love it, and moved in over here. You should see the babies! They are born complete with armor like adults, just really tiny!

I sent a message to my neighbors please not to shoot them. I told them about the grubs, about diatomateous earth, and how to section off part of the property (we all have acres) as habitat for them. Several neighbors made habitats and I hope they aren't being killed.

I had to wrap my mind around this mentality when I moved here. I'm from Austin and I still work there, but I moved out to the country when I bought a house to be close to nature. It's just human nature I'm having a problem with!

When I put a sign in my window espousing the political candidate I supported and for whom I was a precinct and county delegate, I got a couple of pieces of hate mail, and two e-mails warning me about the apocolypse and ushering in the anti-christ. Two bumper stickers were ripped off my truck.

My 10-year-old nephew was jumped at school by five other kids for standing up for a little girl who was called a "camel jockey." She cried and told him she didn't know what that meant and she'd never even seen a camel. He came home and asked if we could move so he could go a school that was more diverse. So, I guess we will. I would like to stay, take a stand and make a difference, but it's become something of a safety issue.

I do miss Austin, a cultural, educational, diversity, and veg'n haven. It's not only OK, but preferable to be different there. I have many choices of vegan or vegetarian restaurants as well as restaurants that are extremely veg'n-savy where nobody will tell you the beans are vegan except for some bacon grease.

Thanks for listening. Great to have a haven HERE, if not geographically.

Your friend,

Karen, also known as Corndog, for strange reasons

[pradtf]

karen,

what people have to realize is that oppressors promote equal opportunity violence:
http://arawconnection.ning.com/forum/topics/equal-opportunity-violence

they really don't discriminate between species.

you are living in one of those strange areas where human nature has gone topsy-turvey - and if you try to righten it by standing up for the abused, exploited, murdered, you get attacked. this should not come as a surprise though, since civilization takes a while.

the thing to remember is that there is a far stronger force behind us than anything oppressors can muster. it is the unstoppable force of evolution which inevitably removes the undesirables of any species.

in friendship,
prad

[David]

Instead of answering this question, I'd like to pose one...have any of us ever wondered what it would be like to have everyone you know and/or hang out with to be vegetarian also?

[Bryant]

it would sukk... haha me and my non-veg friends have so much fun making fun of eachother, plus they all call me veggie burger or veggie and i like that nickname. i wouldnt have it if we were all veg... i enjoy my meatie friends, they bring joy to my life haha... (i dont think a lot vegs are gonna be happy i said that) life needs variety, and i would DIE if all my friends were veg haha

[pradtf]

bryant,

why can't your veg friends call you veggie burger too? just teach them to do so if they are experiencing difficulties.

while your meater friends may bring joy to your life, these individuals deprive other sentient beings from having joy in their lives by supporting imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder.

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

bc i have the name veggie burger bc im the only one of my friends who is a vegetarian. and who am i to tell them not to eat meat. point is i DONT WANT to have all vegetarians friends. i dont want every friend to agree w/ me. i want to be able to discuss things w/ ppl who have diff views. what fun is it talking to ppl who agree w/ everything u say.

and i chose to be a veg bc i love animals and i care for them and i dont think they should die for me. so what my frieds eat meat? they arent personally killing the animal or trapping them. ive tried to convince some of my friends to become veg, they try for a wk and fail. they dont have the same mindset as me and thats what i love about them.

just bc someone isnt a vegetarian doesnt mean theyre bad ppl. The way u say "these individuals deprive other sentient beings from having joy in their lives by supporting imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder" makes it seem like u believe they are. they dont know what goes into their dinner and im not going to force them to find out.

some things i do w/ my meaties i cant do w/ veggies. i cant make fun of a veggie "ew ur eatin face" and they cant tell me to "choke on a carrot"(me and my meaties think its funny haha). some things u cant do w/ a veg and i like that variety.

no hard feelings

[pradtf]

bryant,

i don't think you have to be concerned about the veggie burger dilemma. you can simply introduce an enumeration concept thereby having a veggie burger 1, veggie burger 2 etc and still maintain your status as the veggie burger.

i don't see what 'bad ppl' has to do with any of this. the point is meaters do support "imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder" of sentient beings. now i acknowledge that some people actually think that meat grows inside cellophane in supermarkets, but surely most people (may be even some of your friends) do realize that they are eating something that was once a living, feeling being.

i don't really see why you need to convince your friends to give up eating corpses. it's really their responsibility and not yours. however, some of them may find you to be a helpful resource.

i'm sure you do love and care for animals which is why you went veg. imho, this is quite admirable, since i didn't. i went veg purely for health reasons and had to learn about the ethical aspect.

however, i don't really understand what's so wonderful about loving people just because they have a different mindset. if that concept were to be applied generally, then this entire planet would likely be the most loving place in the entire universe :D

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

yeah they know theyre eating an animal that oncce lived, i wont let them forget... and veggie 1 veggie 2... no that doesnt wrk. its my own unique name amongst my friends. they say veggie we all know theyre talkin to me. my friends dont disrespect animals.i would never be freinds w/ someone who consciousy supports torchering animals. they just choose not to be vegetarians. they dont eat meat to deeliberately harm an animal, they eat it to stay alive. its what they were taught. u dont expect a lion to stop hunting, do u? its all a part of balance and this world would be crazy if everyone went veg.

and what isnt there to understand about accepting ppls differences? nobody is EVER going to have the same views on life as u. uve got to learn to accept it, or keep to urself. u just said if that concept were applied generally wed be the most loving place in the universe. isnt that what we want??? sure its naive and unrealistic thinking, but its still a good concept.

in fact i just posted a blog.. and i kind of feel that u were generally the type of prsn i had in mind while i was typing. and thats not a good thing. especially since u became veg for personal reasons. so why are u preaching about how i shouldnt have meatie friends??? r u just gonna drop all the friends u had before u became veg? u seem to be quite the hypocrite in my eyes