So what's the dumbest question/comment you've gotten as a veg*n?

[Mirabilis]

Other than the ubiquitous, "Do you eat fish?" of course.

I think the one that took the cake for me was, "But if everyone stopped eating animals, we'd be overrun! What would we do with all those cows??" I'd heard about it before, but never actually encountered it. This person was dead serious. I couldn't decide whether to laugh in her face or throw something at her.

[pradtf]

bryant,

why can't your veg friends call you veggie burger too? just teach them to do so if they are experiencing difficulties.

while your meater friends may bring joy to your life, these individuals deprive other sentient beings from having joy in their lives by supporting imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder.

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

bc i have the name veggie burger bc im the only one of my friends who is a vegetarian. and who am i to tell them not to eat meat. point is i DONT WANT to have all vegetarians friends. i dont want every friend to agree w/ me. i want to be able to discuss things w/ ppl who have diff views. what fun is it talking to ppl who agree w/ everything u say.

and i chose to be a veg bc i love animals and i care for them and i dont think they should die for me. so what my frieds eat meat? they arent personally killing the animal or trapping them. ive tried to convince some of my friends to become veg, they try for a wk and fail. they dont have the same mindset as me and thats what i love about them.

just bc someone isnt a vegetarian doesnt mean theyre bad ppl. The way u say "these individuals deprive other sentient beings from having joy in their lives by supporting imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder" makes it seem like u believe they are. they dont know what goes into their dinner and im not going to force them to find out.

some things i do w/ my meaties i cant do w/ veggies. i cant make fun of a veggie "ew ur eatin face" and they cant tell me to "choke on a carrot"(me and my meaties think its funny haha). some things u cant do w/ a veg and i like that variety.

no hard feelings

[pradtf]

bryant,

i don't think you have to be concerned about the veggie burger dilemma. you can simply introduce an enumeration concept thereby having a veggie burger 1, veggie burger 2 etc and still maintain your status as the veggie burger.

i don't see what 'bad ppl' has to do with any of this. the point is meaters do support "imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder" of sentient beings. now i acknowledge that some people actually think that meat grows inside cellophane in supermarkets, but surely most people (may be even some of your friends) do realize that they are eating something that was once a living, feeling being.

i don't really see why you need to convince your friends to give up eating corpses. it's really their responsibility and not yours. however, some of them may find you to be a helpful resource.

i'm sure you do love and care for animals which is why you went veg. imho, this is quite admirable, since i didn't. i went veg purely for health reasons and had to learn about the ethical aspect.

however, i don't really understand what's so wonderful about loving people just because they have a different mindset. if that concept were to be applied generally, then this entire planet would likely be the most loving place in the entire universe :D

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

yeah they know theyre eating an animal that oncce lived, i wont let them forget... and veggie 1 veggie 2... no that doesnt wrk. its my own unique name amongst my friends. they say veggie we all know theyre talkin to me. my friends dont disrespect animals.i would never be freinds w/ someone who consciousy supports torchering animals. they just choose not to be vegetarians. they dont eat meat to deeliberately harm an animal, they eat it to stay alive. its what they were taught. u dont expect a lion to stop hunting, do u? its all a part of balance and this world would be crazy if everyone went veg.

and what isnt there to understand about accepting ppls differences? nobody is EVER going to have the same views on life as u. uve got to learn to accept it, or keep to urself. u just said if that concept were applied generally wed be the most loving place in the universe. isnt that what we want??? sure its naive and unrealistic thinking, but its still a good concept.

in fact i just posted a blog.. and i kind of feel that u were generally the type of prsn i had in mind while i was typing. and thats not a good thing. especially since u became veg for personal reasons. so why are u preaching about how i shouldnt have meatie friends??? r u just gonna drop all the friends u had before u became veg? u seem to be quite the hypocrite in my eyes

[pradtf]

bryant,

perhaps you could show just where i wrote you should not have meater friends. then you can read my line "however, some of them may find you to be a helpful resource". then you can proceed to explain why i'm a hypocrite.

you misunderstand the ppls differences idea. what i wrote was
what's so wonderful about loving people just because they have a different mindset
by this reasoning, this world which has a myriad of different mindsets should be a loving place simply because people love those with different mindsets. now obviously it isn't this way in the world because it isn't true - in fact, it is quite the opposite.

for instance, an american soldier and one from the taliban obviously have different mindsets. they certainly don't love each other because of this and likely there isn't any reason why they should.

or a misogynist and the woman he is abusing. they don't love each other simply because each has a different mindset either, and i don't think there is any reason why they should.

finally, even you say "i would never be freinds w/ someone who consciousy supports torchering animals." so what suddenly happened to loving people just because they have a different mindset?

therefore, this concept of loving each other just because we hold different mindsets is neither good, nor logical. what seems to be more useful is to look at what these different mindsets really are and figure out what nature they have. some mindsets may really not be acceptable in civilized society.

you wrote:
they dont eat meat to deeliberately harm an animal, they eat it to stay alive. its what they were taught.
it is correct that some people are taught this. however, one would think that they would understand the falseness of such a statement simply because they see that people like you are alive.

you wrote:
u dont expect a lion to stop hunting, do u? its all a part of balance and this world would be crazy if everyone went veg.
now this is a very peculiar idea. what do lions have to do with any of this? just because a lion kills other animals (they all don't btw), doesn't mean humans need to. why would the world be crazy if every human went veg? what balance would be disrupted? are you saying that humans need to eat meat so they maintain balance in factory farms? why not simply remove the mechanisms which imprison, torture and murder animals, so there is no need for humans to keep eating sentient beings.

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

the way u describe my friends is as ppl who "other sentient beings from having joy in their lives by supporting imprisonment, abuse, exploitation and eventually murder" as though thats their purpose for eating meat. hinting that they are bad ppl. which, in my mind, sounds like "why do u have meatie friends?" i think ur a hypocrite bc u say everyone should be veg, and ur using ethiccal reasoning to back up your statement, yet you yourself didnt become a veg for those reasons. u seem to believe that non-vegs are monsters, yet you yourself was once a meatie.

i never said u should love someone for their diffeneces, i said u should accept them. i said i love MY freinds for their differrences, not the world. so u completely misunderstood the whole "differences" thing. me and u dont seem to agree, but i dont hate u for it. in fact i want to send u a friend request so that i an discuss other things w/ u.(its not often that im able to have a meaningful conversation w/ someone)

about my friends eating meat even though im an example of vegetarianism, they choose to continue eating meat. they believe that it was put here for them by god. i cant tell them they are wrong for that. if they choose to eat meat, then they can. it doesnt bother me. i know that im doing what i can to support what i believe in and theyre doing the same.

lions relate bc u r asking an entire species (human, to give up everrything they were taught (eating veggies AND meat). thats impossible. and while not all lions kill, all WILD lions eat meat.

i DO believe that humans should be more aware of the process and torture the anniimals go to to become their dinner, and i feel that somtething needs to be done about it. but i dont think everyone should become veg. it would throw balance bc humans are part of the food cycle. as omnivores, and if humans were to all become veg than everything would be thrown off bc thats the way its been since the beginning of time. if an detail that big is changed, then everything changes. i hate spiders and i wish they would all die, but if they did then wed be overpopulated with other bugs and we would succumb to various diseases and eventually the human race will die out. all of these details, whether u like them or not, are important

[pradtf]

bryant,

i'm happy to have a friends request from you.

now let's be clear regarding what i'm saying and what it "sounds like". i realize you are angry (i read your blog), but there isn't any reason for you to be angry with me (not just yet anyway :D).

if i want to tell you to drop your meater friends, i'll say precisely that. if i want to say your meater friends are bad ppl, i'll say precise that. and regarding what you wrote in your blog, if i want to tell you that you are not doing enough for the cause, i'll say precisely that too. i haven't said any of these things nor do i think them, so it may be better if you would let me just say what i will, rather than telling me what i am actually saying :D

when one is angry, one can jump to unwarranted conclusions, but there is no reason to hang on to these especially when there has been clarification.

for instance, you have just clarified your statement regarding your loving your friends for their differences as opposed to just loving anyone just because they have a different mindset. from your initial statement, "they dont have the same mindset as me and thats what i love about them", it seemed the latter (and not the former) was what you were saying. now that you have clarified, you see that you are more aligned with the idea that it is important to discern "what these different mindsets really are".

i agree with your statement that "i know that im doing what i can to support" the cause regardless of what criticisms you may have received from others (again from your blog).

we have a problem though with
1. this lion thing,
2. the imbalance humans going veg is supposedly going to cause, and
3. the incorrect assessment that humans are omnivores.

i'll be happy to elaborate on these matters since you write "its not often that im able to have a meaningful conversation w/ someone" - and you and i can certainly do our bit to get these forums to again get some activity.

so if you are ok with not being angry with me because i'm 'one of those' vegans, likely have some different mindsets from you, and are also ok with not assuming things because you have decided they 'sound' a certain way, we can continue this discussion.

in friendship,
prad

[pradtf]

hello bryant! i hope you've found this reply which really isn't in the proper place because it can't be thx to the ning forum structure. i'm glad we are continuing this discussion.

let's start backwards from your statements:
it would throw balance bc humans are part of the food cycle. as omnivores, and if humans were to all become veg than everything would be thrown off bc thats the way its been since the beginning of time.

first, let's dispell any notions that humans are omnivores. they aren't. humans are more herbivores or frugivores biologically. they are omnivores only by their actions. by that reasoning, you can say they are also carnivores simply because many eat meat (but so do cows sometimes in factory farms). however, a study of the comparative anatomy of humans with true omnivores shows a very lopsided correlation:
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm
this article by dr milton mills is quite thorough in its explanations.

so while humans are part of the food cycle, the corpse industries are actually messing up the food cycle in a variety of ways including affecting the health of the consumer, the overproduction of the victims, the environmental consequences (some countries like australia actually have a 'fart' tax because of the methane produced by factory farms). the food cycle just isn't what it used to be before agribusiness took over in the 20th century. (i can present you with various factsheets regarding the effects of the corpse industries, but since you are already a dedicated veggie burger, chances are you know much of this stuff anyway.)

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

well i believe, by what ive been tought, that humans are omnivores. that they must grow up on meat, veggies, etc. in order to live a full healthy life. so i cant dispel what everyone has tought me bc of something one prsn tells me. i became a veg believing that my health would suffer but i took that risk anyways. of course ive come to see that thats not happening. While i believe a veg*n diet can be healthy, i feel that it's not for everyone. and that we need some kind of consumption of other beings to maintain a balnce in the animal kingdom. however i dont think it should be done how it is now. while i dont agree w/ the way we obtain our meat, i feel that some sort of system is necesary. i feel that ppl should make a conscious effort to comsume meat that wasnt tortured and "experimented w/" all its life.

"the corpse industries are actually messing up the food cycle in a variety of ways including affecting the health of the consumer, the overproduction of the victims, the environmental consequences " i agree completely w/ this statement, however i dont believe this is reason to dismiss the fact that humans being omivores is an important part of the food cycle. i think this statement is a good defense as to why industries should find new methods of producing there... well... products. just like almost everything else in the world and history, humans find a way to help make the world a more productive place, but eventually greed takes over and turns a once helpful business or concept into a corrupt machine that ends up harming those it was made to help for money.

[pradtf]

bryant,

it's not what one person is telling you. check the article out carefully and you'll see precisely that the human physiology is different from the omnivore physiology and very like the herbivore physiology. you don't need to take mills' word for it, you can examine the comparative anatomy itself to see that he is correct. it is because human physiology is not omnivore physiology that there are so many 'animal protein' related diseases in people.

actually, you are not correct when you say "i cant dispel what everyone has tought me bc of something one prsn tells me", because you did just that! despite thinking there would be a risk to your health, you had the guts to listen to one person ... yourself! so i'd say you're pretty good at dispelling the notions others throw at you.

humans do find ways to make more production and there is always a price for production especially when it is fueled by greed and corruption.

with respect to the corpse industries, that price is not only paid by the victims who suffer as well as all of us with regard to the environmental destruction, it is also paid by those who are the primary consumers in terms of their own health (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, asthma etc etc etc). it's not just that the corpse industries should find new methods (that's the animal welfare movement), it's more that they really need a completely new product.

here's an accurate but amusing comment by dr neal barnard (www.pcrm.org):

The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of 'real food for real people', you'd better live real close to a real good hospital.

in friendship,
prad

[Bryant]

i didnt dispel anything when i became a vegetarian, i thought i would get sick. i became a vegetarian still believing u needed meat to be healthy, but i decided tthat illness is nthn compared to the death of the animals. i never told myself "maybe theyre wrong" i lived for a year waiting to get sick so i could get the worst over w/. i just learned through the experience and the fear that i can live a healthy.

theres so many causes that say stuff like "causes more death than (insert whatev here)" and they all compare to the same things. wars cancer car wrecks... ut only one cause can be right. so im srry but i cant take what dr neal says in that comment, w/ all respect to him.

[pradtf]

bryant,

you dispelled what everyone (including yourself) was telling you about getting sick, by not getting sick. that was what my point was.

as far as taking neal barnard seriously, you'll have to do some research into the matter before you can do so. i'm not suggesting that you just accept what he is saying, but it's not as simple as saying there are lots of these 'X causes (insert whatever)', so i'm not going to believe any of them. the sort of argument you are running is because there are many of these 'conspiracy theories' and some of them have proven to be false, it must mean they are all false.

we have accumulated medical research about the detriment of animal protein consumption over the past century (and quite a lot of it in the last four decades even in major medical journals like the lancet) - some of it interestingly enough produced and suppressed by the meat and dairy industries (dr mcdougall elaborates on this in his dvds and may be even on his website). we have evidence that correlates very well with quantity and duration of consumption of animal proteins with various illnesses such as cancer, atherosclerosis, osteoporosis, diabetes, arthritis etc. we also have numerous cases which show that elimination of animal protein consumption can in many cases (that are not too far gone) reverse these conditions.

again, there is no need to simply accept my word on this. if you want to be convinced you need to do the research yourself. here is a good starting point, if you are interested, because it provides a short summary and gives you some key links:
http://www.towardsfreedom.com/veggiechess/goVeg.html
(if you want to pursue this or have any questions, just ask)

so while i admire your conviction "that illness is nthn compared to the death of the animals", don't sell the nutritional aspect too short. what's good for your ethics is also good for your health.

in friendship,
prad