Getting the message out

[Brett]

I feel the subject of preventing animal cruelty imedes the Vegetarian/Vegan message rather than helps it. I'd like to see the promotion of Vegetarinism/Veganism take an approach that more people can relate to. While handing flyers, holding up signs, and posting pictures of the atrocities that happen to animals as a part of the food chain is shocking and important for everyone to know about, I feel there is a backlash effect that pushes people further away from Vegetarianism/Veganism instead of bringing them closer to it. While nobody can feel good about seeing a calf tied down in a crate, or a dumpster full of baby chicks, nobody wants to feel like their being forced or guilted into giving up meat, leather, or dairy. All it does is make Vegetarians and Vegans look like panty-waste hippies. And really, who takes a panty waste hippy seriously?

My point is that there are other issues just as large as the prevention of animal cruelty that deserve just as much attention, and if we ever hope to make our message more relevant, we need to bring the issues of other things like the link between the meat and dairy industries with environmental pollution, economic decline, and cancer.

Am I alone on this? I'm not saying stop promoting animal liberation, but cut back to make room to show other dangers of how the meat and dairy industries affect ourselves, our economy, our environment and our earth's animals.

[Capture]

Hmmm...Well I'm not sure how to take this message. I'm the VP for a campus animal rights group and we do all the things you just said not to do. We hand out flyers, protest places like KFC, show movies like "Witness" at out campus theater and bring in lecturers--we actually have a very positive response, especially on campus! I have tons of people asking me questions and getting involved with outrgroup. When we go out to do protest we have tons of people honking, waving and shouting out words of encouragement--which tells me the public is not only aware of the horrors of animal cruelty *especially those of factor farms* but that they fully support ending the suffering too!

I get where you're coming from--some activists can be a little too "hands on"--but we are not all "panty waste hippies" and you shoud be more considerate when posting messages like this. I'm sure the other activists on the board don't appriciate your name calling...

Also, the items you suggest we give more credence to (other than animal suffering) are all things linked into the materials we hand out; like most groups, our materials are from PETA. If you are interested in taking an active role in educating the public on these issues, you should contact PETA and see the great material already made for your ideas. However, if you're not even active--why are you dumping on those of us who are?

Capture

[Kamaniya * DO YOUR PART! visit stoppuppymills.org]

Brett, could you please elaborate on the term "panty waste hippy"? It's a new one to me. I've been vegetarian for 10 yrs, vegan for 5, & this is the first time I'm hearing it. I have actually experienced very little ridicule about my beliefs about our fellow animal beings.

I had to breathe deeply & think very carefully as I put together this reply to your post. Let me share my personal experience: I spent a year or 2 "thinking" about cutting out dairy before taking the final step. When I tried to "make the decision" from my mind, from reason, it didn't take a hold in me, because it was mental effort, not my own natural impulse. One day I heard an amazing cd, a keynote address by Ingrid Newkirk, PETA';s founder, talking about the horrors & reality of the torture inflicted on cows at the hands of man to satisfy our greed for dairy. (Those are my words, not hers.) It was audio, so the visuals were left to my imagination. It was powerful. It hit me in the gut, it hit my heart center, it hit me in the core of my being that this unspeakable cruelty was not something that I could consciously participate in. It was my own primal reaction to hearing the information that was presented to me, much of which I had been unaware of. The next morning, I sat down to what had been my usual breakfast of a glass of cow’s milk & toast. I tried to pretend to myself that it felt ok to drink it. I practically forced it down. But I couldn’t lie to myself. That was the last time that I ever willingly consumed dairy. I went from being a dairy guzzler, practically addicted, to quitting cold. No going back. That was 5 yrs ago. When I tried to "reason" myself into dropping dairy, it didn't work. When it hit me in my heart center was when I felt the Truth of it.

Brett, your message couldn't ring more wrong in my being when I think about my own personal experience. I feel that people have a right to know the realities of what these animals are going through. If it was human animals suffering these atrocities, would you recommend the same approach? I think maybe not?


It seems to me that our arrogant species needs to be shocked into opening our eyes. That’s what it took for me, as well as countless people that I have met.

I blogged about >> the myth of "free-range" farming on my MySpace page & later to a couple of discussions here. An earlier blog post about >> "free-range" egg farming has several pictures that shocked my readers into questioning the notion of "free-range". In MySpace especially I had such a great response from animal lovers who had been oblivious to the facts presented. They were so grateful to learn about the truth. There is no way to "sanitise" this information. It's the process of sanitisation that is at the root of so much of our self-empowered ignorance. Even down to labels such as "meat", "pork", "beef". Why not say it as it is? Dead animal flesh. rotting pig carcass. rotting cow carcass. Actually, this is not how I speak with people generally, but I truly would like to see more people speak this way.



I find that I am effective in addressing animal lovers, confident in the knowledge that they would never want their own animal friends to suffer in the way that these other beings do. I tread carefully in my approach, one step at a time, by invitation. However, I also support people who take the opposite approach. Everyone has the right to express what's in their hearts. By remaining silent about the truth, we participate in the genocide.



MASS GLOBAL GENOCIDE is what is is. It happens daily. There are no two ways about it.

What are WE going to do about it? How long do you propose we continue to build walls to hide the truth of the windowless factory, fur & fish farms, the torture chambers parading as “science” labs, the misery that we call the “circus” & “zoo”, myths such as “organic” & “free-range”… the list goes on & on. While I am most certainly supportive of exploring EVERY angle to promote cruelty-free co-existence with our fellow animal beings, my personal belief is that to be effective we have to strike at the very HEART of humanity. Because it appears to me that the intellectual approach hasn’t been very effective so far. Return to the heart is my approach.

I look forward to participating further in this discussion,
Love & Light

~ * Lokah Samastah Sukhinoh Bhavantu * ~
May ALL beings be happy, at peace & free from suffering
~ no exceptions!!

[Brett]

Hi Kamaniya,

I'm surprised that you haven't received any ridicule as a vegetarian or vegan. I'm also surprised that you haven't noticed you are unaware of the media induced stereotypes of vegetarians and vegans. If you pay attention to any television, I have no doubt you'll only find negative portayals of vegetarians. I feel the term, "panty waste hippie" is an accurate expression to use when describing the dominant populations opinion of vegetarians.

Do you associate with any non-vegetarians? Everywhere I've brought up why I'm vegan and what goes on in these factory farms, I am accused of trying to guilt them into acting compassionately. No matter matter what I do, whenever I bring up the atrocities, they take it as a judgement call on themselves. So I asked myself, what other reasons can I give them to give up meat and dairy?

In your story, you said that you could not make the jump to veganism through reason, but only through feeling did you finally make the decision. I feel that you are in the minority in this mode of thought. More people think for themselves. And when given a flyer from PETA, or sees a sign depicting the conditions of factory farms, more people think about what action they should take rather than getting themselves into a tizzy and making a rash decision without thinking. People that use these methods shock value are no different than the people who stand outside and try to push their religion on you, or preach against homosexuality. The average person doesn't want to be guilted or forced into doing something something different. They have to be presented information that makes sense to them, and it has to be something that they feel they can relate to. If you're looking for people to not think, just feel, we are going to have a real hard time getting anybody to understand.

You are also denying the fact that most people do not put animals well being on the same level as people. Nobody has ever told you, "who cares, they are just animals, people come first"? We have to change people's perspective to get them to see that an animal deserves the same basic rights to life as humans. And just because someone is an animal lover, doesn't automatically mean that they care about cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens. And to assume so can waste a lot of animal liberation efforts. One can love cats and dogs, but not have the same affinity for farm animals.

I understand where you're coming from, and believe me, we are on the same side, but I think our experiences have been completely different.

[Sue Hawks]

I don't think you meant to insult anyone, but I hope you didn't mean to be mean. I kind of took it as a statement from the point of view of people who don't understand the message.

I think often the public is too quick to change the channel so to speak. If it frightens or offends, they flee. It's become too easy for people to ignore serious issues because there are so many. Plus look at the people in the white house and how they treat life. These are called our representatives? Too many people watch Fox News and think they are informed, so they think if it isn't on the news, it can't really be happening.

Some people are capable of being reached, of course, and then many of those are already on the fence. But it's good to get them to fall on our side nonetheless.

Anyway I'm a big believer in the statement that says what you focus on expands. I would like to see more variations in methods for getting the word out. I try to seek out the positive that is being done to change agriculture and then seek to push these positives farther. I don't deny or ignore the harsh realities but if what you focus on expands, then when I am made aware of something deplorable, I know I can hold a vision of something opposite and positive taking place in the world and begin to give strength where I would rather see strength go.

I wonder what a different approach to getting the word out on a grand scale would look like. Perhaps this is just the perfect forum to figure that out and put it into action.

[Brett]

I agree about this being a good opportunity to explore new ventures, thank you! That's all I was trying to do. I've found the research done by the China Study facinating. I wonder if promoting vegetarianism as a means of fighting breast cancer would be something worth looking into. Capture, with groups like yours it could be a fresh angle to add to your efforts. I like the idea of bringing public speakers to colleges and adding this information to flyers and pamphlets as well. :)

[Brett]

Hi Capture, thanks for responding. I think it's great what your group is doing on campuses. I wish there were groups like this when I was in college. I wonder how many people actually become vegetarian as a result from your efforts? Were they already thinking about becoming vegetarian? Or were they already looking for a cause to rebel with, a fad that would piss off their parents? I've met many trendy vegetarians, that were vegetarian because it was cool, but gave it up later because it was too hard, or wasn't cool anymore.

I've found that the non-vegetarians I know, are already informed of the horrors of factory farms. But it doesn't prompt them to be compassionate and not buy into the murder. How do we reach them? How do we make vegetarianism relevant to them? I knew about factory farms for years before I became Vegan. While I felt bad about the animals I felt it was easier to disconnect the meat from the lives and feelings of the animals. But seeing the bigger picture beyond the cruelty and the impact it has on everything is what made me make the jump.

I don't apologize for my choice in words. I'm tired of seeing eyes roll when protesters are in front of a store that sells fur coats. I'm tired of vegetarians portrayal in the media as weak, or even as hardcore. I want meat eaters to understand, we need people to see that as people, vegetarians are just like everybody else, and not panty waste hippies. If people can know about factory farms and still choose to eat meat, there is a disconnect somewhere, and I feel it's because they can't relate.

I appreciate your suggestion about exploring the PETA website. I'll check that out. I also plan on going into Health law where I can make changes in the system. Convincing a government that gives so much money to the meat and dairy industry is no easy feat. They literally spend billions of dollars brainwashing the public to think that they need meat and dairty to survive, and that vegetarians and vegans are panty waste hippies. You can't deny the stigma we are up against. So while I'm not holding a sign with slaughtered animals on it, I am planting seeds to make a difference in the future. Something more relevant and more permenant and makes a larger impact.

But there is a spot in the fight for everyone. And your group is playing an important role. But in the books and newspapers I read, there isn't nearly enough done on the national level on par with what the meat and dairy industries are doing. After reading the books from Eric Schossler and Peter Singer, I felt I wasn't truly inspired until I read Michele Simon's Book, Appetite for Profit: How the Food industry undermines our health, and how to fight back. I recommend you pick it up if you haven't read it already.

[Capture]

Oi! SO much to reply to--I'l try to be succint! Our members are all over the board--some of us were already veg*n, some were on the bubble, some are still omni's. We defentely welcome all and make no demands that a member changes their diet (however, we defentely push more litriture their way ;)). Our group tries to find as many ways possible to get the message out without freaking anyone out--for example, right now we are working on a campaign to have out universities dining services switch over to cage free eggs--once people know what's happening with battery caged hens they jump on board! Of course it helps that we're not trying to "take" anything away form them--just give them a better option. Were not all about "Shock and Awe".

As far as the media portrayal--you win some you lose some--I think overall veg*nas and animal rights advocates are getting a better wrap these days--of course when you have assholes like Michael Vicks showing the entire world what happens in some of these animal abuse cases advocates like me seem like the brighter future! People are just ignorant and reluctant to let go of something--in this case eating meat, dairy, ect--that has been ingranined in not only their lifetime but for thousads of years!

*blerg* I feel like this reply isn't conveying what I want it to--I just started my winter break so my brain power isn't quite where I want it to be :)

Anyways--I guess what I'm trying to say is--you do what you gotta do! I know that there are other ways of helping animals, people, the environment, beisdes "holding signs of slaughted animals" it's just one of the ways I do it. If you do something else--that's OK with me--every little thing helps.

[Kamaniya * DO YOUR PART! visit stoppuppymills.org]

Capture, I hope you know about >> the MYTH of “FREE-RANGE” EGGS? It's a total smoke screen & only serves to enable people to feel justified in their consumption of eggs & the suffering that is caused by the industry.



In response to Brett's post, I'd like to TELL IT LIKE IT IS:

[Capture]

I am well aware that "free range" is only slightly better than factory farms--however, this is a campaign started by the Humane Society that we are dedicated to. Our University is going to by eggs no matter what--we might as well get the eggs from the least abusive place! Also--our campus is near a lot of local farms--we're hoping to be able to get their distrubuter to go through them if at all possible!

I'm feeling pretty beat up here...you know I am trying to help end cruelty not sustain it...

[Capture]

Hi Amelia--In response to your question--I do think that the cage free egg practice we are trying to get set up at our campus will help--in some small way--to end animal suffering. As I have stated before this program was created by the Humane Society of America. We have extensive materials from them on the benefits of a large scale switch of the eggs from factory farms to cage free. Also, as I have said before--I realize the chickens are not treated that much better--but even a small step can be benificial.

The local farm in our area have been scouted--by our local human society office as well as members of our group. I don't really know what you want me to say--of course the explotation of animals in anyway bothers me as a veg*n--but my group is made up of veg*ns and omnis a like, our group decided to go with this plan and as I feel the promotion of this will help educate a mass of people to the sufferings of animals--I have decided to participte in implamenting it.

I feel like people on this thread are making it out like I am running a chicken slaughter house just because I support the use of cage free eggs at an instition that will buy eggs regardless...I think it's great that their are people who take the all or nothing approach--but every small victory in my book is a win. If my group gets this to pass and we get maybe one new member, or one new veg*n--that's a win in my book--I can't make the world veg*n over night--if some of you out there can--then I will happily fall in line for you.

[Kamaniya * DO YOUR PART! visit stoppuppymills.org]

Capture, I'm sorry if you took that post of mine above as beating up on you, the graphics were not intended just specifically to your comment there but to the topic as a whole, more specifically to the original post. Perhaps I replied in the wrong spot... I did though want to address the egg issue. Sorry for any unintentional offense, I had no thoughts of beating up on anyone. Message me if you need to clarify further... would hate to have any misunderstandings!

[Chris Tinney]

I love those cartoons! Thanks